tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post7775544274328041287..comments2024-02-18T20:30:02.769-08:00Comments on Historically Obsessed : Notorious Royal Marriages Leslie Carroll on Mary Queen of ScotsLizziehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06610444517085989215noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-89801191454973261402015-01-06T02:19:47.137-08:002015-01-06T02:19:47.137-08:00Even if the marriage was arranged and the union un...Even if the marriage was arranged and the union unconsummated, Francis is the best of the three husbands in my opinion. And I believe he was one she sincerely loved and not just in a familial sense. He was clearly the only man to respect and value her. They appear to have been devoted and happy. Even if the relationship was not sexual or Francis was emotionally and physically immature, it was a good match. From where I stand, he was the only husband that wasn't a complete ass and that carries more weight for me. Was the marriage passionate? Did they choose each other? Maybe not, and no. But that doesn't mean they weren't devoted or in love. They grew up together. It's rather sweet. As with Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette. Antoinette didn't choose her husband either but they grew closer and I genuinely believe they fell in love. The hardships and difficulties of their youth solidified their bond. I think Mary and Francis were like this too. It's tragic he died so young. How different her life might have been had he survived. Kaitlyn https://www.blogger.com/profile/13153335536945883358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-59412674410705380532010-01-25T10:34:07.340-08:002010-01-25T10:34:07.340-08:00Forrest ha you have come back! Cool you got a bunc...Forrest ha you have come back! Cool you got a bunch of Mary books. I just got in the Mail the road to fotheringhay by Jean Plaidy and I can not wait to read it but it is super short like 200 pages so it will be an easy read. <br /><br />I never thought about the half brother I had always assumed she hated him. Conniving I thought.Lizziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06610444517085989215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-1829072952248316162010-01-24T15:19:59.592-08:002010-01-24T15:19:59.592-08:00Hey all,
Excellent posts! Just finished my first ...Hey all,<br />Excellent posts! Just finished my first version 'Mary' website and, in typical style, a whole load of Mary books arrived yesterday!<br />My mum is loving your book Leslie.<br />Wasn't it a shame Mary wasn't able to marry her half brother Moray. He seemed to be fairly 'stable'.R F Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09246633697440713343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-91595785507414611672010-01-17T09:26:44.882-08:002010-01-17T09:26:44.882-08:00Tamakusa, I tried to check out your page but it ma...Tamakusa, I tried to check out your page but it made my computer freeze up. I will have to try it in another browser. From what I did see it is a very cool page. Thank you for sharing.Lizziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06610444517085989215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-7459616632307406562010-01-14T19:06:08.724-08:002010-01-14T19:06:08.724-08:00Hello there! It is with my great joy to find a pag...Hello there! It is with my great joy to find a page filled with people interested in Mary! <br />I created this Myspace page for her a while ago...please check this out! Well, I have always thought that Bothwell and Mary, as tumultuous the relationship and the circumstances were...they loved each other. There are no historical documents that back mt instincts, but I believe it. <br />http://www.myspace.com/maryscotstamakusahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08608125552533852235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-81558173946999135732010-01-11T09:34:18.420-08:002010-01-11T09:34:18.420-08:00Poor Mary it always seemed like no matter what she...Poor Mary it always seemed like no matter what she did she always got the short end of the stick. Lucy was not on her side.Lizziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06610444517085989215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-28952162318978110122010-01-11T00:17:57.193-08:002010-01-11T00:17:57.193-08:00Wow! I thought I knew almost everything there is t...Wow! I thought I knew almost everything there is to know about Mary, but it turns out I was wrong. Terrific Leslie! I really enjoyed reading about Mary and her marriages. She really didn't have any luck finding a worthy partner.Michelle Stockard Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03572227726980569386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-5602007968576574572010-01-10T15:00:42.481-08:002010-01-10T15:00:42.481-08:00It so was slim pickings for Mary. I had never real...It so was slim pickings for Mary. I had never really though it in that way. Very true she id not really pick and I so forgot her was part of the family.Lizziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06610444517085989215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-58173000519283756662010-01-09T15:02:21.557-08:002010-01-09T15:02:21.557-08:00Lizzy, don't forget that Mary had no choice th...Lizzy, don't forget that Mary had no choice the first time around (the dauphin of France) and that the second time (Darnley) was a political move because it put her in a better position to claim that she should be Elizabeth I's heir. Both Darnley AND Mary were descended from Elizabeth's aunt (Henry VIII's older sister Margaret, who was herself a queen of Scotland at one time).<br /><br />So, she didn't pick younger or older -- age differences in either direction had nothing to do with any of her relationships to her husbands.Leslie Carrollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09024567064317102889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-59987148449609437762010-01-09T12:54:53.282-08:002010-01-09T12:54:53.282-08:00I remember read the section on them and I loved it...I remember read the section on them and I loved it. I have a craving for Robert again. I guess I missed the part that the other husbands were younger than her. It does say something about her maturity level though because usually women go for older men because women do mature faster than men. That has me going hum...Lizziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06610444517085989215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-43315003309298345662010-01-09T10:36:46.837-08:002010-01-09T10:36:46.837-08:00Lizzy, you make a good point about Mary searching ...Lizzy, you make a good point about Mary searching for a father figure, although her hudbands (with the exception of Bothwell, who was about 7 years older), were both <i>younger</i> and less experienced than she was.<br /><br />Elizabeth I and Dudley don't make it into ROYAL PAINS, but they do have a nice long chapter in ROYAL AFFAIRS!<br /><br />I'll check my cookies and clear my footprints and figure out why I can't see the text. Good suggestion!Leslie Carrollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09024567064317102889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-85631658475657300952010-01-08T21:38:38.995-08:002010-01-08T21:38:38.995-08:00I checked the blog on my husbands PC and everythin...I checked the blog on my husbands PC and everything was there for me Leslie. Maybe try checking your cookies or your security levels in internet settings. <br /><br />Christine, no I so agree with you. She was a man lover from the begining and I think that she more than likely was the type of woman who had to identify herself with a stronger man. She knew she was meant to be a "breeder" and wanted to full fill her end of it. I have always felt like she just went along with everything until it got too much and that was when she had courage. She had courage when it really mattered.<br /><br />My thing with her started with the red chemise when she was executed, it led me to reading more on her. Philippa Gregory's book the Other Queen not that many people favored but I loved her fictional description of her "teeth like a kitten". It had to have been all that fiery red hair that was going on mixed with the Tudor gene's it all went haywire between the Queens.<br /><br />My favorite part from "Notorious Rayal Affairs" was what happened to Bothwell in the end. I loved it! <br /><br />Comapring Mary and Elizabeth is like comparing night and day. Which reminds me to say that I hope "Royal Pains" that Leslie is including a section about Robert Dudley and Elizabeth, secretly hoping. <br /><br />The two queens were so completely different. Raised opposite Mary in a "loving" environment and Elizabeth had her father Henry VIII. Imagine...Mary was probably coddled a lot when compared to Elizabeth. Mary was just weak willed. But she did not Henry VIII breathing down her back every seccond. Elizabeth's childhood was a fight for survival. <br /><br />Leslie.. Mary's father died when she was young maybe she was just looking for the replacement male figure in her life .<br /><br />No matter what she will always be high on my list she did go to her death with dignity and her head held high. Which I can respect because she died alone no man with her then.Lizziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06610444517085989215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-72754349195139337622010-01-08T20:33:43.727-08:002010-01-08T20:33:43.727-08:00I agree, Lucy, there's just something about Ma...I agree, Lucy, there's just something about Mary.<br /><br />But she didn't chose Francois, either; it was a dynastic alliance made when they were both toddlers. And I don't think she loved Francois like a husband or lover either, but like a cousin or kid brother. There was never a sexual spart between them.<br /><br />True, who knows what would have happened had Francois lived -- but they still would probably have never had an heir because he had that little issue with his undescended testicle. <br /><br />No such thing as TMI in the royal courts of Europe where the ambassadors were eager to report all the marital dirt to their respective sovereigns, the better to enable them to get a diplomatic leg up.Leslie Carrollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09024567064317102889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-51647023588922584862010-01-08T20:15:28.957-08:002010-01-08T20:15:28.957-08:00There's just something aobut Mary;)
No- reall...There's just something aobut Mary;) <br />No- really, except for Francois, her choice of men was not the best. I often wonder how different things would have been if Francois, the closest person, as far back as she could remember, would have lived..<br /><br />True that when you compare her to Elizabeth though, seems she just wasn't cut out for the position. And yet again, there's just something about Mary.<br /><br />Terrific post Leslie- I love this in-depth look into her life. Lizzy, you illustrated her beautifully! How did I ever miss that post?! Great- Thanks:)Lucy https://www.blogger.com/profile/13600064401395449845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-19745068245263815062010-01-08T19:19:51.663-08:002010-01-08T19:19:51.663-08:00I don't think we can necessarily blame Mary. ...I don't think we can necessarily blame Mary. She didn't have the temperament to be a queen. But she was born to be queen and never had a choice in the matter. Actually, several monarchs I profiled in NOTORIOUS ROYAL MARRIAGES were unsuited temperamentally to be king, like Eleanor of Aquitaine's cousin and first husband Louis VII, and Louis XVI.<br /><br />I've questioned some of Mary, Queen of Scots's decisions and she undoubtably had some of the worst taste in men of anyone in history. But of course monarchy isn't a meritocracy. And there's no "judgment test" given to heirs to the throne.Leslie Carrollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09024567064317102889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-21820655674946979442010-01-08T18:09:19.974-08:002010-01-08T18:09:19.974-08:00I kind of agree with you Christine - I have always...I kind of agree with you Christine - I have always felt that she didn't stand up for herself- which as a queen she should have. I had only known about her marriage to the dauphin from reading Madame Serpent by Jean Plaidy - until I read NRM. It really is an interesting story tho. Thanks for the post Leslie.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609161113240681299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-54933998425388390812010-01-08T13:53:39.087-08:002010-01-08T13:53:39.087-08:00Leslie, since you say Lizzie loves the story of Ma...Leslie, since you say Lizzie loves the story of Mary Queen of Scots, I hope she will not be too mad when I say that after reading this post, I now view Mary as extraordinarily weak-willed.<br /><br />Not like her cousin, Elizabeth! Of course, Elizabeth had Tudor *and* Boleyn blood coursing through her, a mix of two potent lineages.<br /><br />As an aside, I never realized Mary was so tall!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-61703710192855521662010-01-08T12:44:40.000-08:002010-01-08T12:44:40.000-08:00Shifty is the perfect word for the look he has abo...Shifty is the perfect word for the look he has about him. The artist did capture his essence very well. <br /><br />I too think he more than likely was using her or as we put it today "playing" her. He does look like a bad ass and I can see why she would think he would put an end to it all.Lizziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06610444517085989215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-9952532496125032522010-01-08T11:41:30.857-08:002010-01-08T11:41:30.857-08:00You are so right! Bothwell looks incredibly shift...You are so right! Bothwell looks incredibly shifty and untrustworthy in that portrait. You really have to credit the painter with capturing his soul in that way. Anyone nowadays would look at that portrait and wonder "What did Mary see in that guy?"<br /><br />Of course Bothwell was supposed to have been a very capable military general and government minister -- yet he'd tried to undermine Mary on more than one occasion long before Darnley bit the dust. I'd stake my reputation on it that Bothwell never cared at all for her in a romantic way; he just wanted to use her, and she was so vulnerable and exhausted after the ordeal of dealing with the accudations following Darnley's murder, that she just wasn't thinking clearly. She thought he would be the man to bring the dissident factions of her nobles together, but she was so wrong.Leslie Carrollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09024567064317102889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-31026186816880908842010-01-08T10:17:40.809-08:002010-01-08T10:17:40.809-08:00Leslie, I will work on my husbands computer and se...Leslie, I will work on my husbands computer and see if I get what you are saying about the middle section being gone. That is really strange. I am on a Mac which might have something to do with it but I will see. <br /><br />You are so right I love Mary she is such and intriguing woman. I had never seen the picture of Bothwell before but man he does look like a bad boy does he not?Lizziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06610444517085989215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2319886081447332049.post-73918730166649057412010-01-08T09:30:32.249-08:002010-01-08T09:30:32.249-08:00Lizzy, you illustrated the post with the perfect i...Lizzy, you illustrated the post with the perfect images. Really fantastic job! And I know how much you love Mary, Queen, of Scots!<br /><br />I'm on my husband's Mac computer now, because for some reason Microsoft's internet stuff isn't working for reading your blog. All of a sudden a day or so ago, I'd go to check out your blog from my own computer and I'd get all the images on the 2 sidebars, but the whole center, where all your text is supposed to be, was nothing but white space.<br /><br />Macs can read the blog, but Internet Explorer, AOL browser, etc., aren't doing it.<br /><br />Could it be that dratted Mercury in retrograde!?<br /><br />Ooh, and thanks so much for linking the post to my recording for you as MQS. I had a sneaking feeling you might do that! :)Leslie Carrollhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09024567064317102889noreply@blogger.com